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Interesting article to say the least...

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The Pentagon has approached Congress to grant the Secretary of Defense the authority to post almost 400,000 military personnel throughout the United States in times of emergency or a major disaster.

This request has already occasioned a dispute with the nation’s governors. And it raises the prospect of U.S. military personnel patrolling the streets of the United States, in conflict with the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878.

In June, the U.S. Northern Command distributed a “Congressional Fact Sheet” entitled “Legislative Proposal for Activation of Federal Reserve Forces for Disasters.” That proposal would amend current law, thereby “authorizing the Secretary of Defense to order any unit or member of the Army Reserve, Air Force Reserve, Navy Reserve, and the Marine Corps Reserve, to active duty for a major disaster or emergency.”

Taken together, these reserve units would amount to “more than 379,000 military personnel in thousands of communities across the United States,” explained

Paul Stockton, Assistant Secretary of Defense for Homeland Defense and America’s Security Affairs, in a letter to the National Governors Association, dated July 20.

The governors were not happy about this proposal, since they want to maintain control of their own National Guard forces, as well as military personnel acting in a domestic capacity in their states.

“We are concerned that the legislative proposal you discuss in your letter would invite confusion on critical command and control issues,” Governor James H. Douglas of Vermont and Governor Joe Manchin III of West Virginia, the president and vice president of the governors’ association, wrote in a letter back to Stockton on August 7. The governors asserted that they “must have tactical control over all . . . active duty and reserve military forces engaged in domestic operations within the governor’s state or territory.”

According to Pentagon public affairs officer Lt. Col. Almarah K. Belk, Stockton has not responded formally to the governors but understands their concerns.

“There is a rub there,” she said. “If the Secretary calls up the reserve personnel to provide support in a state and retains command and control of those forces, the governors are concerned about if I have command and control of the Guard, how do we ensure unity of effort and everyone is communicating and not running over each other.”

Belk said Stockton is addressing this problem. “That is exactly what Dr. Stockton is working out right now with the governors and DHS and the National Guard,” she said. “He’s bringing all the stakeholders together.”

Belk said the legislative change is necessary in the aftermath of a “catastrophic natural disaster, not beyond that,” and she referred to Katrina, among other events.

But NorthCom’s Congressional fact sheet refers not just to a “major disaster” but also to “emergencies.” And it says, “Those terms are defined in section 5122 of title 42, U.S. Code.”

That section gives the President the sole discretion to designate an event as an “emergency” or a “major disaster.” Both are “in the determination of the President” alone.

That section also defines “major disaster” by citing plenty of specifics: “hurricane, tornado, storm, high water, wind-driven water, tidal wave, tsunami, earthquake, volcanic eruption, landslide, mudslide, snowstorm, or drought,” as well as “fire, flood, or explosion.”

But the definition of “emergency” is vague: “Emergency means any occasion or instance for which, in the determination of the President, Federal assistance is needed to supplement State and local efforts and capabilities to save lives and to protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in any part of the United States.”

Currently, the President can call up the Reserves only in an emergency involving “a use or threatened use of a weapon of mass destruction” or “a terrorist attack or threatened terrorist attack in the United States that results, or could result, in significant loss of life or property,” according to Title 10, Chapter 1209, Section 12304, of the U.S. Code. In fact, Section 12304 explicitly prohibits the President from calling up the Reserves for any other “natural or manmade disaster, accident, or catastrophe.”

So the new proposed legislation would greatly expand the President’s power to call up the Reserves in a disaster or an emergency and would extend that power to the Secretary of Defense. (There are other circumstances, such as repelling invasions or rebellions or enforcing federal authority, where the President already has the authority to call up the Reserves.)

The ACLU is alarmed by the proposed legislation. Mike German, the ACLU’s national security policy counsel, expressed amazement “that the military would propose such a broad set of authorities and potentially undermine a 100-year-old prohibition against the military in domestic law enforcement with no public debate and seemingly little understanding of the threat to democracy.”

At the moment, says Pentagon spokesperson Belk, the legislation does not have a sponsor in the House or the Senate.

"The Constitution of the United States is a law for rulers and people equally in war and in peace, and covers with the shield of its protection, all classes of men, at all times and under all circumstances. No doctrine, involving more pernicious circumstances, was ever invented by the wit of man that any of its provisions can be suspended during any of the great exigencies of the government."
 
Picture the aftermath of Katrina on a natl level with US Armed forces going door to door to confiscate firearms "for our own safety".

This stinks to hi heaven. :angry:
 
Not to sound like a government voice piece but I was down working katrina for the military nad it was not us taking guns it was the local LE agencies diricted by thier governor and mayor. The military and federal law enforcement agancies are activated all the time for things like this.
 
parsons 12b I stand corrected. You are right. The NRA I believe won a lawsuit against Ray Nagin and the NOPD to make them return the guns. to their rightful owners as they had been either dragging their feet or refusing to do so outright if they thought they could get away with it.
 
I like this idea, but then it scares me too.

We should have troops on the ready to respond to national emergencies. And if were attacked again we need security. But not to go round up our guns. They need to round up the people here on foreign visas and student visas and kick them out. Stick a few soldiers on flights so if one of those crazies acts up they can take them out.

And I'm a person that has purchased several guns but have sold most of them because of money problems, what happens when they come for mine and I tell them I sold them and no names to give them. I'm probably going to end up in a "camp" for trouble makers.

It does seem kind of weird we have the largest military in the world and most of them are overseas. Sooner or later someone will get the balls to attack America.
 
they already haave the balls to attack america. To wit:
The World Trade Center
The U.S Embassy in Beirut
The U.S Embassy in Tearah
The U.S.S. Cole
 
the army, navy, marine corps, air force has thousands of troops stationed in the U.S. Who do you think mans all the military stations in every state in the U.S. ? Who teaches boot camp? Who recruits?Who repairs the planes? Who works in the pentagon?
 
The ACLU is alarmed by the proposed legislation. Mike German, the ACLU's national security policy counsel, expressed amazement "that the military would propose such a broad set of authorities and potentially undermine a 100-year-old prohibition against the military in domestic law enforcement with no public debate and seemingly little understanding of the threat to democracy."


Hmmm, it isn't often that the ACLU says something that I don't disagree with....
 

That would be all good, but isn't that what we have Homeland Security, Immigration(or what ever it's now called), US Marshalls....etc, etc.....

My point being, why the heck do we have all these agencies if we deem it necessary to secure our borders with US Military?
 
I am not worried about the soldiers or for better words "Service Members" (SM) as they are just following orders in any event. I am more worried about the leaders who are in charge of those SM's. The leaders will plan, resource and order the SM to execute any wacky idea they can come up with. We have had 100,000's of SM's world wide (think of Germany or S. Korea from the late 1950's till about the early 1990's with training downtown civilian-ville) and guess what? The battle is here in the states now. We have tried to keep the fight off our soil but that has lasted only so long. We are facing a different times.

Now please do not think I am for this, I see the potential abuse of ones authority (**** communism looks good on paper until you factor in the reality of human behavior), all I am saying is lets not start bagging on the SM's, lets stay focused on the leadership and their motives.

One last rant, if I were President I would give in my first Sate of the Union address a two week termination notice to FEMA. I would divert all funding from FEMA (Huge *** budget with little oversight because, well it is for emergency purposes so who is wasting time to review such a noble cause as this?) to the States National Guard units. the National Guard has dump trucks, ambulances (both wheel and rotary),hospital units, chaplins, social workers, MP's and contracting officers. Who better to deal with a local disaster than a local member of the community? You do not need some bed-wetting AFGE union member over paid per diem idiot, to tell you that you cannot rescue your neighbor of his roof top because you do not have the proper insurance on your boat nor show proof of Federal inspection of your water craft to ensure its capabilities of such rescue. Screw FEMA. In my opinion they are in violation of the Federal waste, fraud and abuse act every time they cash there pay checks.

I am stepping off the soap box and away from the caffein.

SF-
 
A government big enough to provide you with everything is big enough to take it all away.

I hate to sound like a paranoid, tin-foil hat wearing anarchist (I am not any of these things), but we are allowing our government to too large. Its time to pull in the reigns. Both parties are as guilty as the other here. This posi-comitus violation is simply the latest example of the government perpetrating acts "in the name of the people." Time to start electing some new blood to the government. The incumbents have butchered their jobs for long enough.

I also, am off my soap box now.
 
I am a Vet and I'm telling you this is very bad news! The only reason to allow troops to patrol our streets is to create a police state in order to control the people... ALL THE PEOPLE! The excuses for these proposed actions are groundless. It is not necessary for natural disaster, it is not necessary to prevent terrorism. Those excuses are ridiculous and praying on media and politically driven fear mongering.

On a side note: If ordered would an American soldier attack or disarm their own country men? Yes they would. I was in the US Military and I'll tell you what... you do what your told. Additionally they only tell you what they want you to know. If they want you to do something they are concerned you will not do normally they might just spin a tail for you about how the people they are ordering you to disarm or possibly destroy are in fact domestic terrorists. I am telling you this honestly from my heart as a US Military Veteran.
 

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