time to ask

[elsullo]

I'm old and half-crippled. Over time I have lost all of my family and close friends. Last year I managed to recover from a small stroke, and I know I could have another at any time and be unable to speak for myself. So, who will clean up the loose ends that I leave behind?

Me. I am settling the hash before I need to. I got a simple "medic-alert" bracelet holding written instructions for "no heroic revival", which means "no machines" to keep me alive. I'll soon get a physician's directive elaborating that theme, and a legal will to distribute my few valuables.

I donated my body to science. If students can learn about my ailments and devise future treatments, then I am well rewarded, and my pain has all been worthwhile! I learned a bit about it: only use State medical universities with "whole body donation" programs. The outfits that advertize in the obituaries page in the newspapers are profit-making charlatans who sell off your bones and tissues, not donating to medical shcools. I used OHSU which covers everything free, from body pickup and embalming to cremation and ashes scattering. Meanwhile, they consider the scarce donated bodies to be extremely precious and meaningful. I am now covered and all is well.

Don't worry, I ain't dead yet. Just taking care of business while I can.............................elsullo

[Wheeler44]

elsullo...Excellent post.......

I hope to live long enough to see the coming crash....I was told to start waiting for it in the '70's........

Assuming a crash, interment norms must change.....I don't suppose there would be many funeral homes and crematoriums left..

In that case....Just put me in a canoe, set it on fire, and send it down the closest river...

If not.....I hope to be buried next to my daughter back home.....

But the future's uncertain and the end is always near....

W44

[Just Jim]

Originally Posted by Gunner3456

Since I don't like it, and I don't think it's fair that my wife and I got educations, worked hard, saved money, made investments, and now the government takes a ton of what we have to give to people who were not and are not responsible, WHAT makes you think that I will be interested in helping those who didn't prepare if the SHTF? What's the difference?

Apart from immediate family, sink or swim based on your own planning and effort. I'm not carrying you any longer or farther than a government forces me to.

Today if I don't cough up about 1/2 of what I make to taxes I go to jail. If the SHTF and you expect me to cough up ANY of what I have, you die.

I really don't know where to start here except buddy you ain't carrying me and you never have nor will you ever. Government steals your money don't cry to the rest of us cause they stole ours too.

My point was what kind of society will be left after SHTF with the type of people who will live through it? What then when we come out of it, what do you want in society?

You may be totally selfreliant or think you are but sooner or later society of whatever sorts will find you in their midst. Gonna be real interesting how you addres the person you need something from when he tells you to go get your own cause he worked for his


just saying

jj

[powersbj]

Tsk tsk Jim, making a survivalist think beyond their own survival. Life is a journey, the destination is the same for us all.

[Just Jim]

See your point there, no since asking questions. It makes people uncomfortable LOL

jj

[bugeye]

Originally Posted by MrB

When I fly commercially I ignore the safety lecture like everyone else but I do, absolutely, look at the escape diagram in the seat pocket and make sure I know where I am relative to the hatches. Always wonder if I'm the only one...

MrB

No, I do it too, then I check the wings for gemlins and make sure I'm not sitting next to Rod Serling.

Actually, I'm not planning on surviving, only I want to take out as many of the 'people' that are trying to get me as possible out of sheer cussedness.

I've had a wonderful life, if I have to leave it right now all I have to say is 'Thanks", some miracle to be alive, and I've had my fun, had children, done my duty, worked, created, had more victories and defeats than I can even remember, loved, survived dozens of things that should have killed me, appreciated the insanity of our times as well as the next guy, and laughed till it hurt. Seems rather strange, the universe gives us this fantastic gift for free, but then we are too greedy and cheap to help others, who just need a leg up because they are impaired just can't make it on their own, like the poor investment bankers who had to make do with paltry $600,000 bonus checks last year, have a heart guys! Our system seems to be trickle up.

[powersbj]

I wonder if everyone has fully thought through the idea of surviving while the "unprepared mass of humanity" starves around them.

To me the unprepared masses are my neighbors. I have my 80s something backyard neighbor who is always willing to give some pointers or loan a tool when I need it. After working a life time of construction hes got alot of advice. Do I let him starve?

How about my other 60's something retired neighbors with their 30 year old son who still lives at home due to autism? To **** with them they should have just given him a post birth abortion right? Survival of the fittest and all that.

Perhaps the choice is the firemans family across the street? After all he only wastes his time saving people... But hes never saved me so **** him. I'll watch his daughter and wife starve while I sit on 500lbs of rice and beans.

Im not saying I can save anyone, but I can make the effort to help them. People who are looking to only saving themselves are part of the problem. If the world takes that attitude there will be no police, no firemen, no constitution and no freedom... Oh wait... thats not that what your complaining about is it?

[Gunner3456]

Originally Posted by Just Jim

So this is about survival but how will you deal with things you know you won't survive? What about your family? It comes for all of us and sometimes in different ways than we expect.

Mel tappen was Mr. Survival. Wrote books and magazines along with news letters on how to survive. Had everything he needed on his ranch and all the guns and ammo you could want. Made all the right investments and made a fortune selling his ideas. He died of cancer before his time.

Are you really ready for what lays ahead and how have you prepared? Might as well have the full picture rather than the Red Dawn fantasy.

jj

Originally Posted by Just Jim

: I really don't know where to start here except buddy you ain't carrying me and you never have nor will you ever. Government steals your money don't cry to the rest of us cause they stole ours too.

My point was what kind of society will be left after SHTF with the type of people who will live through it? What then when we come out of it, what do you want in society?

You may be totally selfreliant or think you are but sooner or later society of whatever sorts will find you in their midst. Gonna be real interesting how you addres the person you need something from when he tells you to go get your own cause he worked for his


just saying

jj

But, the first quote above is your OP - the topic of the thread and I answered it.

How can I help it if you're schizophrenic?

[MrB]

Originally Posted by powersbj

Im not saying I can save anyone, but I can make the effort to help them.

You can help them by gently leading them to start prep'ing, too. If their response is that, hey, they're just completely tapped out after adding the ski-boat and TV to the inventory, well...

Originally Posted by powersbj

If the world takes that attitude there will be no police, no firemen, no constitution and no freedom... Oh wait... thats not that what your complaining about is it?

Even if policemen and firemen in the today survive to the tomorrow, I doubt they'll continue in their careers. In the SHtF world, everyone will have more pressing matters, I think.

MrB

[powersbj]

Originally Posted by MrB

You can help them by gently leading them to start prep'ing, too. If their response is that, hey, they're just completely tapped out after adding the ski-boat and TV to the inventory, well...
Even if policemen and firemen in the today survive to the tomorrow, I doubt they'll continue in their careers. In the SHtF world, everyone will have more pressing matters, I think.

MrB

Its not an action or a career Im talking about, Its a attitude and philosophy. Will you help people in need at risk of your own well being? And if not your own well being how about your own comfort? And if you are unwilling to sacrifice your comforts how are you any different than the bankers and politicians that got us into this mess.

[Father of four]

I am doing what I can to provide for my family now. I am planning for the future and if we have to change over to survival mode then we will. We do not have all the provisions that I would like for us to have but we will work with what we do have. If it gets really bad here in the United States and the government does collapse then all **** will probably break loose. My family and I will have hoped to be already joined into a small community of people to work together at surviving. I hope we all live well. Probably in time a dictator, dictators, groups of strong men, gangs, or mercenaries will show up with force to take what we as a community has or would/will have made. We way not be able to hold onto what we have even with a fight. We may fight or surrender. Who knows? But if and when that time comes I will be continuing to try and provide for my family the best I can and praying to God and my savior Jesus Christ for help everyday to make it through the possible bad times we are facing or to stand strong in my faith until the end.

[MuddyWatters]

Originally Posted by powersbj

I wonder if everyone has fully thought through the idea of surviving while the "unprepared mass of humanity" starves around them.

To me the unprepared masses are my neighbors. I have my 80s something backyard neighbor who is always willing to give some pointers or loan a tool when I need it. After working a life time of construction hes got alot of advice. Do I let him starve?

How about my other 60's something retired neighbors with their 30 year old son who still lives at home due to autism? To **** with them they should have just given him a post birth abortion right? Survival of the fittest and all that.

Perhaps the choice is the firemans family across the street? After all he only wastes his time saving people... But hes never saved me so **** him. I'll watch his daughter and wife starve while I sit on 500lbs of rice and beans.

Im not saying I can save anyone, but I can make the effort to help them. People who are looking to only saving themselves are part of the problem. If the world takes that attitude there will be no police, no firemen, no constitution and no freedom... Oh wait... thats not that what your complaining about is it?

Big old +1 to this. Humanity is what needs to survive.

[Riot]

This arguement always seams to come down to this during these discussions...

Who do you help and who don't you help? Why don't you help other people? Why are you "survivalists" so willing to cast away humanity and focus on yourselves?

If you asked a man that built a bomb shelter during the Cuban Missle Crisis the same questions you would get the same answers. We, as survivalists, don't spend our time and money on plans and preparations to help anyone else other than our loved ones. Sure, we would JUMP on an opportunity to bring another friend or neighbor along with our plans...for example, if I built a bomb shelter and my neighbor did the same- why not link a tunnel up together? Why not just make one big one for the both of our families so we can spread out the burdon of supplies (like tools and generators and such). Ask most survivalists and they would be more than happy to bring others along and help them as prepared as they are.

Now, for those of you asking "why so cold?" and all that other Liberal crap I ask you....why should I give my resources to someone who didn't prepare? The man that scoffed at me for spending all my money on supplies is now banging on my doorstep with his hand out? The man that spent all his investments on a BMW that casted me aside as a "gun-nut" now wants me to carry his weight to survive?

I'm sorry to say, but it is a tough world...my family comes first and foremost.

Surely if my neighbor's house caught on fire I would be the first to let him stay at my place for shelter....that's what neighbors do. My survival is not in jeopordy because I let him stay under my roof.

But what we are talking about, gentlemen, is an entirely different scenario. You cannot just jump over to Costco and get these supplies anymore....you can't just run to the gas station and get more gas. These supplies are like antiques now....they are precious items that should be held onto and not given away at everyone with their hand out.

When the housing market tanked and people had to foreclose on their homes, did you say "oh no, I should clear the spare bedroom for my neighbor!" Or did you say "that's what you get for getting an adjustable rate!"

There is a HUGE difference between helping someone and carrying their weight...as the saying goes-

"Improper planning on YOUR part does not constitute an emergency on MY part."

Call me whatever you will and judge me however you like...if you see the storm comming and don't plan for rain it's your tough luck. And if you're not watching the weather channel at all then that is not my fault. You only have yourself to blame.

You cannot scoff at those that prepare then expect them to help you when you didn't prepare yourself.

[Just Jim]

What will be the end results? What will it be like should your worst fears come about?

jj

[Gunner3456]

Originally Posted by Just Jim

What will be the end results? What will it be like should your worst fears come about?

jj

I die. I don't plan to live forever.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Just Jim

What will be the end results? What will it be like should your worst fears come about?

jj

You're asking what I believe is the "Worst Case Scenario"?

I think inflation will hit and gas will go through the roof. States that have their own resources (water & power) will cut off other states that pay for their services. Washington state should be good for a while...but I think states that are dependant on other states for resources will go into a panic once the utilities shut off with no end in sight to be turned back on. We will sit and watch as other states have Katrina-like panicing and looting. Then our Governor will see what is going on in other parts of the US and use the State Police as her own personal body-guards. She'll declare "Martial Law" and activate all US servicemen to maintain order in the major cities.

The Canadian boarder will be closed just because of the sheer amount of immigrants trying to come over.

Food and other supplies will be rationed off, i.e. people will only be allowed to buy one case of water per person per day. Nevertheless, people will begin to see that supplies are dwindleing and will start to protest- but it will be too late. They will be hearded up like cattle and shoved into detainment camps in order to maintain order.

People will rat on their neighbors and their family members for better treatment...telling the "authorities" that their neighbor is a dissident and plans to attack the authorities...

Those that speak ill of their government will be detained and have their property seized indefinatly and without trial. Any type of firearms will be illegal to possess. Eventually the guys that live in the mountains/woods will even be tracked down to be disarmed or detained for their political views.



That's it in a nut-shell...I think that is the worse we can get. The above scenario is minus any natural dissasters or other political influence as well. It's just something that may be on the way without the help of anyone else.

[Riot]

And just to add on...the above is just what may happen if we just go on like "business is usual". I really do think that with the way the Middle East is going, it might get much worse much sooner...any country at any time could tell us to F-Off and do what they want to do without any say from us.

We have our hands tied in so many places throughout the world and so many countries have their hands in our pockets it's INSANE! North Korea could attack South Korea....India and Pakistan could get into it and Isreal and Iran wont be getting along anytime either.

So what does that mean for us?

No gas, no imported goods, and our US dollar is worthless to the global market.

You think the unemployment rate is high now? Wait until our troops come back from overseas!

The system is balancing itself on thin ice...one more ounce of weight and it will come tumbleing down. We've kicked the money printer into full gear and bailed out every major coorporation we could think of so that the lobbyists could still keep their paychecks comming.

We need to take that "RESET" button from Hillary and use it on our own government...an entirely new start where our legislators actually speak for the people instead of for their lobbyists. Then, we need to worry about our own problems before we start worrying about everyone elses'...everyone talks about Haiti and Africa, but what about our needs when Katrina hit? Everyone just said "That's what you get America!"

Well I, for one, am sick of dealing with everyone else's problems...

[powersbj]

The worst case scenario is the end of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit.