Thread: CMP questions (Civilian Marksmanship Program)

I just attended my first CMP class last night...wasn't able to get childcare for the match today, but since the class was free I thought I'd check it out and see what there was to offer and get a chance to mess around with the M1-Garands.

My interest in firearms is almost 100% survival and preparedness related (though as time goes on I am beginning to actually enjoy shooting more and more as a hobby/recreation)

After I complete 1 match I will have the option to buy a surplus M1-Garand for about $500....which I understand is a deal? I think I would like to do that. But here are my questions:

Is that a good deal? price wise.

Is that a good "survival rifle". Currently the only rifles we have are an AR-15 .223 and a .22 Rifle. We know we need something with more knockdown power if we want to be able to "hunt" for anything larger than a coyote.

I understand there are problems sourcing correct ammo for the Garands....so re-supplying ammo post SHTF would be problematic....If I was to enter the league of M1-Garand owners I would most likely pursue reloading capabilities...which is something I should probably do anyways...so this might just give me a good kick in the pants...

If I buy from the CMP am I entering any sort of an understanding (either implied or direct) that I will be called upon by the military? What I mean is would I be more of a target if the military was looking to draft people last minute etc? I figure these are their guns, they KNOW who they are giving them to and they KNOW these people have basic knowledge of how to operate them... ya catch my drift?

thanks for any insights. I'd also like to hear experiences good or bad from anyone who has done the CMP program. Thanks!

Originally Posted by MissJ

Is that a good deal? price wise.

Yes. You can get several in different "types". Have you see the CMPs webiste?
Rifle Sales

Note the different conditions and prices.

Originally Posted by MissJ

Is that a good "survival rifle"?

Ummm there are better options than the M1

Originally Posted by MissJ

I understand there are problems sourcing correct ammo for the Garands....so re-supplying ammo post SHTF would be problematic....If I was to enter the league of M1-Garand owners I would most likely pursue reloading capabilities...which is something I should probably do anyways...so this might just give me a good kick in the pants...

Not true. The CMP has TONS of M1 ammo. You can also shoot commerical 30-06 if you change the gas plug which is very easy. 30-06 is a VERY common ammo and should be VERY easy to find if you worry about SHTF stuff.....

Originally Posted by MissJ

If I buy from the CMP am I entering any sort of an understanding (either implied or direct) that I will be called upon by the military? What I mean is would I be more of a target if the military was looking to draft people last minute etc? I figure these are their guns, they KNOW who they are giving them to and they KNOW these people have basic knowledge of how to operate them... ya catch my drift?

Ah no. The gun becomes yours, it isn't a loan, you buy it. Take the tin foil off, no worries here.....

I have purchesed many things from the CMP over the years with nothing but good things to say. I will say this, the surplus will not last forever and if you dont act when they have it for sale it might not ever be for sale again.............

I was interested in a CMP class (where?) in OR, but yeah, more for the nostalgic value of the Garand. But if there are better options, what would you guys go for (semi? clip vs. mag load?)

Sorry for the thread hijack. Keeping on topic: what did you go over in the class, how was it structured, etc.?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by iomatic

I was interested in a CMP class (where?) in OR, but yeah, more for the nostalgic value of the Garand. But if there are better options, what would you guys go for (semi? clip vs. mag load?)

Sorry for the thread hijack. Keeping on topic: what did you go over in the class, how was it structured, etc.?

Thanks.

I took it at the Douglas Ridge Rifle Range (here's the link: Douglas Ridge Rifle Club ) which is out in the Barton/Eagle Creek/Damascus area. It's a beautiful range and the class itself is free, but it's $40 to do the match the next day (which I believe includes all your ammo, since they require you to use their ammo if you are using their gun) They have like 10 Garands I think to let beginners use during the match. No rental fees or anything.

It is a 4 hour class, typically offered from 6-10 pm on a friday night, with the match to follow the next day bright and early at 8:00 am. You only have to take the class once; then you can just show up to the matches everytime thereafter....and you are allowed to take the class as many times as you want....I will probably take the class one more time and then do the match the follwing day.

the first part is explaining the history of the gun, the mission of the CMP and then jumps right into operating the gun, loading the clip, chambering a round, loading the clip with only 2 rounds. You practice loading the clips with dummy ammo a few times....it's not hard but you DO need to be shown how cuz it's not as obvious as more modern magazines. Then you go through all the match rules, how to score targets, the safety rules, what you are allowed to do before your prep time and what you are required to do during your prep time or during your "timed" time.

THen the last 90 mins or so you get to go into the indoor range and use the club's Garands and dummy ammo and practice loading, aiming etc. from all the different positions as well as attaching your sling in different positions. The volunteer instructors are all very helpful...and you can leave any time you want once you get to the hands on portion (so if you need more sleep before waking up at 7:00 am for a 8:00 am match, you don't have to stay until 10 pm).

Overall, I felt the class was well worth my time and money (haha....it was free....but still worth my time)

Originally Posted by MissJ

Is that a good "survival rifle"?

The M1 is large, heavy, limited in round capacity (anyone near by will know when it runs dry) and will not mount a scope in a conventional manner. That said they are great guns, extremely reliable and accurate with plenty of down range slap. Patton called it "The greatest implement of battle ever devised."

If pressed into service today I’d want one of these:
Original S.O.E. Gear

Any more modern counterparts (ar? ak?)

Bolt action?

if you enjoyed that you should check out the Apple Seed Project,

Project Appleseed Home

They will take what you know now and expand on it.

Currently the CMP is into a VERY nice batch of Garands. A "service grade" M1 from either Springfield or H&R will set you back $595 plus 20 for shipping and it comes in a very nice plastic case. Delivery is to your door and in 2-5 weeks usually.

Garands are wonderful rifles and in 30-06 caliber, you can buy ammo directly from the CMP already loaded on "en bloc" clips and sealed in tins. Like ALL military rifles, the Garand is designed to operate with a particular type of ammo and in a specific presure range. M14/M1A's have the same issues, so do AR-15's. Stick with 30-06 ammo loaded with 150 gr bullets to a max of 175gr bullets and you should be fine. Any decent Garand will shoot 1.5 to 2 inches at 100yds and they are decent to 600yds with GI sights.

Every issue with Garands or M1A's is usually related to someone shooting some crappy Bubba reloads, heavy bullets(200-220 grs), poorly sized ammo or crappy imports. Most peole reload their hunting ammo to stout for most milspec rifles and this is where they have over-pressure trouble and break things.

You always hear that stupid story from WWII about the germans attacking when they heard the clip go "Ping". My Dad carried one in WWII and I watched him working a Garand when he was in his 50's. No one on earth could have gotten three steps before he could have blasted them, the reload was that fast.

They are well worth 600 bucks from the CMP.

Originally Posted by lonegunman

Currently the CMP is into a VERY nice batch of Garands. A "service grade" M1 from either Springfield or H&R will set you back $595 plus 20 for shipping and it comes in a very nice plastic case. Delivery is to your door and in 2-5 weeks usually.

Service grade currently sold out - get while the getting is good (they will sell more service grade once the open more crates, but the crates of greek m1 will not last forever.......they have special service grades for more money and that is what I would get

Originally Posted by lonegunman

Garands are wonderful rifles and in 30-06 caliber, you can buy ammo directly from the CMP already loaded on "en bloc" clips and sealed in tins.

The sealed tins have been sold out for some time.......but you still can get 30cal cans with bando's and en blocs plus 30cal cans of loose ammo..........again buy now as surplus does not last forever.........

By all means, take advantage of the CMP program. It is a great deal, they have good customer service, and they send you a rifle just as described.

My CMP M1 is a SPringfield November 1943. IT IS A SHOOTER!!

As for the eligibility requirements, any firearms training class that issues a certificate with the name of the NRA certified instructor or similar on it will work for documentation of training. I'm from WA, so a copy of my WA CPL and a copy of a Carbine Class cert went to the CMP. No problems.

As for the being sold out part, send in your order anyway. I sent in mine, and the next day they showed up as Sold Out. I called the CMP, and they said, don't worry about it. We put sold out on there when we get busy, and need to catch up to orders.

Originally Posted by lonegunman

Currently the CMP is into a VERY nice batch of Garands. A "service grade" M1 from either Springfield or H&R will set you back $595 plus 20 for shipping and it comes in a very nice plastic case. Delivery is to your door and in 2-5 weeks usually.

Garands are wonderful rifles and in 30-06 caliber, you can buy ammo directly from the CMP already loaded on "en bloc" clips and sealed in tins. Like ALL military rifles, the Garand is designed to operate with a particular type of ammo and in a specific presure range. M14/M1A's have the same issues, so do AR-15's. Stick with 30-06 ammo loaded with 150 gr bullets to a max of 175gr bullets and you should be fine. Any decent Garand will shoot 1.5 to 2 inches at 100yds and they are decent to 600yds with GI sights.

Every issue with Garands or M1A's is usually related to someone shooting some crappy Bubba reloads, heavy bullets(200-220 grs), poorly sized ammo or crappy imports. Most peole reload their hunting ammo to stout for most milspec rifles and this is where they have over-pressure trouble and break things.

You always hear that stupid story from WWII about the germans attacking when they heard the clip go "Ping". My Dad carried one in WWII and I watched him working a Garand when he was in his 50's. No one on earth could have gotten three steps before he could have blasted them, the reload was that fast.

They are well worth 600 bucks from the CMP.

The issue with ammo for a Garand is not the bullet weight but it is the gas port pressure. Mil. spec. ammo only. Reloading for the M-1 should be limited to slow burning powders such as IMR 4895 and IMR 4064 or powders with similar burn rates. Factory ammo even in the 150 bullet weight can over load the gas system and damage the op rod. The M-14/M-1A does not have this problem in that it has an improved gas system with gas piston and op rod being 2 separate pieces. AR's can shoot any factory or reloaded ammo loaded to standard specs.

If you are looking to get your ammo in enbloc clips with bandoleers act quick. I received an email from CMP they are about out. They do have a lot of 30-06 loose in ammo cans which is a pretty good deal too, but get a can with the ammo set in the enblocs with the Bandoleers before they run out. You can find them elsewhere, but not this cheap anywhere else.

why doesn't anybody make ammo for the M1-Garand? seems like the market is there....

Or at least why doesn't somebody commercially re-load it?

Federal makes ammo for the M1, not as cheap as the M2 ball by CMP, but will work just fine. I prefer to hand load most of my M1 ammo. Go to the CMP forum and look up the reloading section for load data etc...
http://media.midwayusa.com/productim...112/112253.jpg

While it is fun to participate in a CMP match, you don't have to. There are several ways to satisfy that requiremement. The CMP site will show all the different ways you can use to do that. The easiest is to download their form and have a range officer sign to show he witnessed you shooting 50 rounds (or something like that) safely. I had done a little competition shooting with the USPSA and had a rating card and was able to use that.

I've gotten more .22 rimfire rifles from them than anything. It seems like this last batch of them sold maybe the last really sizeable batch to be sold. Glad I joined them when I did and got the opportunity to get a few.

If you are a vet, that counts as well.

OK, so I competed in my first CMP match today....which is actually my first ever firearms match.

I won't talk about my score since it's not brag-worthy but my goal was to be at least 80% on paper and not last place and I satisfied both of my goals by a decent margin....so I am happy....

It was a BLAST!!! And I plan to attend as many as I can in 2012....

My question is this: I was on the CMP rifle sales site and looking at my choices which are basically a field grade garand in the price range of $495-695 or a Service Grade Special for $995 after that is the "correct grade" costing at least $1,100 and I'm just not interested in spending that much on a garand.

What should I buy considering that the regular service grade is currently sold out?

My goals with this firearm is basically to have a durable, larger knockdown power "battle rifle" added to my arsenal. I would LOVE it if I could luck out and get one that is good enough for competitions...but at DRRC I can always borrow one of the club guns if need be or in a pinch I can use my AR-15 since I am a female...so my purpose of the rifle is not really for match purposes...it is for survival purposes...in that case I am not so concerned if all the parts match, or if there are marks or scratches or gouges in the woodstock....

ya catch my drift? any money I save on the rifle I can apply to more ammo, mags, food, fuel etc. I am mostly interested in a worthy and dependable barrel/bore...not a collector item.

thoughts?

You go girl good for you. I competed at DRRC match yesterday also? I am glad you had fun and hope you did not think we were a bunch of macho idiots. More people need to get out there and shoot. Marksmanship skills are perishable. Us experienced shooters like to promote the sport and help new shooters. You are the future of the sport. I have purchased several Garands through the CMP. Sold a couple and only have 5 left. I have purchased several of the service grade rifles and have used them in competition. I have seen field grade rifles that friends purchased that shoot well. And if that is all you can afford it will serve you well. Most garands can benefit from tightening up a couple parts to shoot well. I f you can afford the H & R collector grade you will not be disappointed I have seen several really nice ones.

MissJ: The M1 Garand is THE great battle rifle from the middle of the last century. Fun to shoot, and for the service-rifle matches it's perfect.
I wouldn't rely on it for a SHTF gun though. For "zombie defense", your AR15 will work better than a Garand. For hunting and longer-range knock-down power, go to a bolt-gun with a decent scope in at least .308 (7.62x51 NATO)(the Ruger Gunsite Scout comes to mind <http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/models.html>). A bolt-gun is simpler, and will eat more different loads of ammo than a gas-operated one.

7.62mm NATO is very ubiquitous, would be available from current military stocks (as would 5.56mm NATO/.223), but M2 ball (30.06) is not. For SHTF (or just lots of practice) build up a large stock of ammo (5-10k rounds).

By the way, on your question of "am I entering any sort of an understanding (either implied or direct) that I will be called upon by the military?": As noted above, not via the CMP. However, MOST Americans don't realize that EVERY ABLE-BODIED CITIZEN between the ages of 18 and 45 (except prohibited persons, already service military members, and certain elected officials) are by-law members of the "Unorganized Militia of the United States". The original Massachusetts militia included all able-bodied men 16 to 60. There is no provision, currently, to arm and equip the militia, but the law is there. The 1791 Militia Act required members to muster with their own arms, equipment, and ammo similar to that carried by Soldiers of the time. The Civil War was fought largely by militia regiments which were called to state service. The government (and main-stream media) have since convinced most Americans that "militia" refers to White Racist groups in Idaho, rather than armed citizens organized to defend their communities and nation from "enemies foreign and domestic". Washington even has a statute (since 1995) which prohibits the forming of groups of armed men. ???!!!!

Lastly, for survival purposes, the "experts" (check out Backwoods Home magazine <http://www.backwoodshome.com/index.html> for instance) a good .22LR rifle for hunting small game. They expect that more rabbit (etc.) will go in the stew pot than elk.

Happy Shooting!

FAL